Amanda Van Voris and Nancy Dewald are Senior Directors of Client Solutions at Cleinman, bringing decades of combined experience supporting independent optometry practices. Known for their integrity, client-first approach, and collaborative leadership, they help practice owners navigate growth, change, and people challenges with confidence. Together, they partner closely with clients to drive accountability, strengthen teams, and achieve measurable, sustainable success.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [03:35] Nancy Dewald talks about how peer networks reduce isolation in independent optometry practices
- [05:43] Why a client-first mindset earns trust, loyalty, and recognition
- [06:17] Amanda Van Voris explains how workplace integrity strengthens teams during change
- [09:52] How trust unlocks client breakthroughs and growth
- [13:00] How accountability partnerships help practice owners stay focused and succeed
- [14:53] Nancy gives insights on how HR specialists are improving how practices manage people issues
- [17:52] The Cleinman Operating System guiding practices to drive measurable growth
- [20:31] Why putting people in the right seat leads to higher performance
In this episode…
Independent optometry practices can be incredibly rewarding, but it can also feel isolating when challenges stack up and the pressure increases. What does it take to build a practice that can weather uncertainty, grow through change, and still support the people behind it?
For Amanda Van Voris and Nancy Dewald, long-time optometry consultants, resilience starts with trust and accountability. They explain that meaningful growth happens when practice owners allow themselves to ask for help, step back from the noise, and create space to think clearly about what matters most. That mindset, they note, doesn’t just strengthen the business; it gives leaders the confidence to guide their teams through change with clarity and purpose.
In this episode of the Cleinman Connect Podcast, Kim Carson is joined by Amanda Van Voris and Nancy Dewald of Cleinman Performance Partners to discuss building resilient optometry practices. They explore why accountability drives sustainable growth, how peer support reduces isolation for owners, and what vulnerability looks like as a leadership strength. Amanda and Nancy also offer advice on creating alignment by putting the right people in the right roles.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Kevin Wilhelm on LinkedIn
- Marketing4ECPs
- Cleinman Performance Partners
- POD Marketing Inc.
- Amanda Van Voris on LinkedIn
- Nancy Dewald on LinkedIn
- “[Growth] The Importance of Tracking Data, Using KPIs, and Having Accountability in Your Practice” with Meagan Staab on the Cleinman Connect Podcast
Quotable Moments:
- “When they ask for help is when they’re, that’s the launch point for improvement.”
- “Independent optometry can be a very lonely place, so it’s very rewarding to be able to support them.”
- “There is a high degree of trust that a lot of our folks have in us.”
- “When people are in the right seat and they’re doing what they love, it doesn’t take a lot of inspiring.”
- “And I think that is truly the best way, you’re right, to inspire people is when they don’t need inspiration at all.”
Action Steps:
- Build accountability into your planning: Regular check-ins help keep priorities clear and ensure progress doesn’t stall amid daily distractions.
- Create space for vulnerability in leadership: Allowing owners to ask for help strengthens decision-making and accelerates meaningful improvement.
- Put people in the right seats: Aligning roles with individual strengths reduces burnout and increases motivation across the team.
- Step back to gain perspective: Scheduling intentional time away creates clarity, creativity, and better long-term business decisions.
- Lean into peer support networks: Sharing experiences with other practice owners reduces isolation and reinforces confidence during challenges.
Sponsor for this episode…
This episode is brought to you by Marketing4ECPs!
Working with them is like hiring a full-time marketing professional who knows the industry and understands your goals. Except, instead of one experienced marketer, you get a whole team in your corner.
Whether you’re an optometrist, ophthalmologist, or optician, they can help you grow your business with a plan that’s completely customized for you. Learn more here.
Episode Transcript
Intro: 00:07
Welcome to the Cleinman Connect Podcast, where we discuss marketing, ownership, growth strategies, and everything else surrounding the business of optometry. Cleinman is Optometry’s trusted business partner for over 35 years.
Kim Carson: 00:27
Hello, I’m Kim Carson, hosting Amanda Van Voris and Nancy Dewald, the Senior Directors of Solutions at Cleinman on this episode of Cleinman Connect Podcast. This episode is brought to you by Marketing4ECPs. Working with them is like hiring a full time marketing professional who knows the industry and understands your goals, except instead of one experienced marketer, you get a whole team in your corner. Whether you’re an optometrist or ophthalmologist or optician, they can help you grow your business with a plan that’s completely customized for you. Learn more at marketing4ecps.com. I am joined today by Amanda Van Voris and Nancy Dewald. And, you know, normally I would do a full introduction of you two.
But I think that after, you know, however many episodes of this podcast that have been put out in 2025, I think that maybe people would like to hear from you instead. So thank you for joining us today. And perhaps we could get a brief introduction of yourselves straight from you and maybe Nancy, we could start with you.
Nancy Dewald: 01:29
Okay. Thanks, Kim, and thanks for having me on the podcast. Yeah, my name is Nancy. As you know, I’ve been working with Cleinman since July, which has been a really cool experience. I’ve been in the optical industry a lot of years, but we’re not going to actually attach a number to that because that would be embarrassing in a lot of different roles, you know, business coach, trainer, events, all sorts of things.
And it’s an industry that I love and I look forward to many more years of helping clients be successful with their practices.
Kim Carson: 02:00
Amazing. Thank you so much for joining and Amanda, I’d love to hear from you.
Amanda Van Voris: 02:05
Oh, it’s great to be with you again, Kim. And I’ve been with Cleinman now for a few more years than I care to admit. So it’s been my pleasure to work with Nancy here for a good chunk of 2025, where we really formed a terrific partnership. We’re enjoying working together, tag teaming to help our clients to reach their goals.
Kim Carson: 02:31
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for both being here. I wanted to give our members and, you know, prospective clients, even just a quick kind of highlight of 2025 from your guys’ views. You know, I think it is very cool that we have such knowledgeable Consultants at Cleinman. And the cool part of that is that you both have very different perspectives.
So, Nancy, like you said, having joined Cleinman this year and Amanda being here for, you know, a handful of years, it is very cool to me that you both are here. You both have immense knowledge, but very different routes of getting here. So I think that that is a bit of a treat for our listeners. So I would love to know if either of you have some highlights from 2025, personal or business, that you would love to share. Maybe Nancy, I’ll throw to you first so that we don’t overlap.
Amanda Van Voris: 03:33
I don’t want to talk.
Nancy Dewald: 03:35
Over each other. You know, it was very cool getting to know the membership at Cleinman. I find that they’re very forward thinking. They’re growth minded, they’re entrepreneurial, and it’s very exciting to work with them because you can talk about opportunities and things they could do, and they actually embrace it and do it. In my past, sometimes that’s been a little challenging.
I can have all the ideas in the world, but if nobody embraces it and takes it and runs with it, then it’s hard to make a change. So that has been a lot of fun to see their work pay off. It’s been great to be able to celebrate their wins as they have them, but it’s also nice. I always say optometry can be independent, optometry can be a very lonely place, so it’s also very rewarding to be able to support them in their tough times and when they’re struggling and give them hope and, and kind of help hold them up. So that has been rewarding.
It’s nice to see them achieve their goals. It was really cool to attend my first CPN meeting to see the wisdom sharing and the peer to peer network that this group has created because it’s so valuable. Again, independent optometry is lonely and when these doctors can get together and they’re not afraid to share ideas and pull each other up and help build each other. It was a very impactful thing. It was one of the reasons that I decided to join Cleinman, because I think it really differentiates them, especially for that Doctor Who.
You know what, they’ve accomplished a lot of great things, and they might be part of other groups, which are great, but they’re not getting that feedback and insights to help them to continue to move forward. So that’s been really huge. And then of course, I did win a potty award.
Kim Carson: 05:23
Yeah. That was really actually you know what? All three of us were sitting here with three proud potties.
Amanda Van Voris: 05:31
Look at us potty girls.
Nancy Dewald: 05:33
To be clear, we’re not sitting on the potty. We won potty awards.
Amanda Van Voris: 05:39
Yes, please. Why don’t you.
Kim Carson: 05:40
Could you tell us what yours was in Nancy?
Nancy Dewald: 05:43
Client first. So which is something that is near and dear to me because I. I’ve always said as a consultant The only thing I have is is my reputation and my credibility. So, you know, I go to bat for my clients all the time, and sometimes I’m a pain in other people’s ass for it. But but I do it.
And so it was. I was very proud to get the client first award.
Kim Carson: 06:06
A stunning. And Amanda, I would love if you wanted to add anything on to highlights from 2025. I also would love to know for you to share what your party was in this year.
Amanda Van Voris: 06:17
Sure, I’ll start with the party award because that was so much fun. So my party award was integrity and that was really a surprise and honestly kind of warmed my heart. I gotta tell you, the 2025 has been a big transition year for us. Of course, because of the acquisition. It’s been exciting.
It’s been exciting to see new possibilities and fresh energy. And I think I’ve shared this with you. I know I’ve shared this with you, Nancy, But also Kim are some of the the fresh talent within the POD team is just it’s just wonderful to to see the energy and the new ideas. And it’s it’s been a year of transition and we’ve got more to come. But it’s been wonderful.
And I’ll tell you, Nancy and I just got off the phone with a client here a little bit ago, and we were talking about her unique, one of very unique business challenge in her partnership. But what stuck, what really stood out to me was as we were wrapping up, we were talking a little bit about changes that our folks can expect going forward, and she made the comment to us that she really could feel that the meeting that we just had in Miami, she could feel the energy, she could see some of our new direction. But she was also benefiting from what she has experienced previously, what all of our folks engaged with the network experience, and that is that intimate group setting, peer support as well as support from our consulting team. So it’s I’m kind of I’m kind of the old dinosaur kicking around, but I’m I’m really enjoying the the new energy that’s on our team. It’s it’s it’s certainly starting with you there Kim.
Kim Carson: 08:10
Oh thank you. Thank you so much. I guess maybe I’ll take a quick second and explain to. So Cleinman was acquired by POD Marketing this year. So when we are saying potties, it is pod d I e s not potties.
And it is just a company wide awards ceremony that just happened as our our kind of holiday wrap up. So these two lovely ladies absolutely deserving client first and integrity I when I saw your pictures up on the screen I was like yeah no, like I like.
Amanda Van Voris: 08:46
All.
Kim Carson: 08:46
The people up there have it for sure, but I don’t know if there’s better personifications of it than than you two. So I fully agree with the judge’s decisions.
Amanda Van Voris: 08:58
What was yours?
Kim Carson: 08:58
Kim?
Nancy Dewald: 09:00
Come on.
Kim Carson: 09:01
Mine was positivity. Yet another one where you know all the other people in the in the category. All the other nominees. I was looking at them and I was like, yeah, I can make a case for every single one of them. And then, you know, to win it, I’m certain you two felt the same way.
It’s like it’s it’s an honor just to be nominated.
Amanda Van Voris: 09:23
For a company like this.
Kim Carson: 09:25
It’s truly an honor just to see my name up there. Did any of or did either of you ladies have any moments this year, whether that was watching a client hit an moment and you kind of feeling like, yes, this is what I do it for, or something that somebody may be shared with you or said and you went, okay, yeah, that clicks for me now, maybe Amanda, I’ll go to you first for this one.
Amanda Van Voris: 09:52
I’m going to kind of come back to a conversation that we just had. And this is not this is not a new but this is what for me has always been the difference maker in what we do. You know, going back to that intimacy moment, to have a client, which we just experienced earlier today, to have a client have the trust in us to be comfortable and willing to break down a little bit while dealing with this sticky situation. There is a there’s a there’s a certain amount of. Intensity or importance when you when you recognize that the high degree of trust that a lot of our folks have in us.
And I’ve watched this trust grow, you know, over many years with some of our folks, sometimes as many as two decades. But when that when that environment of mutual trust is, is part of the equation that that always grabs me, always grabs me.
Kim Carson: 11:00
You said something actually in the first podcast that we did together, Amanda, and that was that a piece of advice that you had for any optometrists or owners? Listening was to just walk through their front door as if they were the client. And I will say that was a big moment for me, that you, you know, just off the cuff, you said that. And I was like, yeah, of course, like, where could you start? Oh, I’ll put myself in the shoes of the person.
I’m asking to come into my practice. It seems very obvious, but it was a major moment for me. And I think, you know what you two do just to kind of go back to what you were saying, Amanda. What you two do is you speak about vulnerability a lot from our clients. And I think that maybe people can hear the word vulnerability and think, you know, like, like sadness or weakness or like something maybe a bit more negative.
But what I see you to do every day and what I just heard in your answer, Amanda, is that this vulnerability, this, this thing that you guys talk about with our, our clients is not is not this sad thing. It is a strength, in fact, to to be able to say, like, I don’t know what what this means or I’m not sure where to go next. And there’s so much strength in that because they’re looking to you for help and they’re saying, I don’t know. And they’re not coming from this position of like, oh, now bad things are going to happen or people are going to know I’m a fraud or something. They’re coming from a place of I want to be better, and I want to engage with this, and I want, I want to to know what’s next for me.
So thank you. Thank you for that.
Amanda Van Voris: 12:50
When they ask for help, sorry.
Amanda Van Voris: 12:52
When they when they ask for help is when they’re. That’s the launch point for improvement.
Kim Carson: 12:58
Absolutely. And Nancy, would you like to add.
Nancy Dewald: 13:00
I think in an moment for me was realizing the power of accountability that we really kind of are an accountability meter for our clients. They have so many competing priorities in their business, their doctors, their business people. There’s just so many. And when we meet and be like, okay, let’s start where we left off. Where are you with this?
Where are you with that? And I actually had a couple doctors say, you know, it’s really frustrating that you do that. But thank you for doing that because that’s what I need. I need somebody to help keep me on track. And I’m like, yeah, it’s easy for me to keep you on track than for me to keep me on track.
So I’ll do that all day, every day. But it was it was a good realization that I’m actually not just being a nag. I’m helping them to accomplish things. And, you know, that’s what the Cleinman operating system is about accountability, you know, doing helping people follow through and do what they say they’re going to do.
Amanda Van Voris: 13:57
So yeah.
Nancy Dewald: 13:58
Cool.
Kim Carson: 13:59
Meagan Staab and I had an episode come out. I guess when this comes out, it will be a few weeks ago. But her and I both agreed that we need you both to be our life consultants, so expect more texts from us. Expect more calendar invites. We want you to, quote unquote, nag us as well.
Amanda Van Voris: 14:21
Oh.
Nancy Dewald: 14:21
I’m excellent at that.
Amanda Van Voris: 14:24
Ask my kids.
Amanda Van Voris: 14:28
Oh.
Kim Carson: 14:29
So Cleinman launched our HR services this year. I would love to know if there is anything that either of you have learned from Jenny and Olivia, who are our HR team in that division that maybe changed your perspective or added something to to something you already thought? And maybe Nancy, I’ll go too for this one.
Nancy Dewald: 14:53
First of all, we could not be happier that they are here. It it’s so nice because what was happening in the past is we would spend so much time on our calls on maybe HR related issues instead of building the business. So it’s it’s awesome to have experts in that field to be able to guide them along, whether it be long term planning or reactive scenarios. So it’s just it really reinforces the importance of, you know, connecting with a professional in that area because everybody is dealing with so much when it comes to HR right now. It’s tough.
It’s probably the number one challenge that everybody has. So to have that professional support, you know, to tell the clients, you know what, it’s not just you. This is happening everywhere, but we’ll get through it. It goes a long way and it’s an amazing value add for our organization and for our clients.
Amanda Van Voris: 15:47
Yeah.
Kim Carson: 15:48
Amazing. Amanda, any thoughts on that?
Amanda Van Voris: 15:50
Yeah. The you know, the thing that I’m finding just phenomenal is having the resource that has the bandwidth to put the research in. There are so many nuances in the field of HR, and I’ve been appreciating seeing the output of the work when the HR team is, is, is actually building location specific guidance that makes sure that the practice is not going to get themselves into hot water, either on a state level or on a provincial level. HR development is the mechanics of HR is a big lift and it’s really a value add and I’m hearing it from clients. It is very appreciated by our clients when they know that if they have a problem, a reactive need, that they can get answers quickly and that that energy does lift us up.
On the strategic consulting side, there’s no doubt about it.
Kim Carson: 16:54
Yeah, I think to what Nancy touched on with a lot of your calls being about HR, and now there’s a division that can kind of handle that. It allows both of you to to get into the data a bit more to get into the operating system, as opposed to, oh, we had another issue with an office manager. So let’s put that fire out. And oh, now we have five minutes. So I think it allows you to to kind of work your magic a bit more as well.
Just amazing. Is there anything or. There’s probably many things that you’re looking forward to in 2026, so I’ll rephrase that. What are you looking forward to most in 2026? And again, this one can be a business or a personal if there’s, you know, speaking of accountability, if there’s something you would like to put out into the universe and, and be held accountable on this year.
Amanda, I’ll start with you for this.
Amanda Van Voris: 17:52
Well, you know, one of the big shifts for us is going to be to move in that formal direction where we’re working within the Cleinman operating system framework. And I’m excited to see our clients excitement. So the folks who’ve been exposed to this program so far are saying to us, wow, this is going to be a great way to get organized. This is going to be an enhanced way for us to hold ourselves accountable. We’ll see this this growth, Excuse me, this growth and accountability across all of our programming.
And I’m excited to see that because with improvement in accountability, we see growth in the business. That’s those two things work together.
Amanda Van Voris: 18:39
And Nancy.
Nancy Dewald: 18:40
Yeah, and I would certainly agree the Cleinman operating system is going to be a differentiator. And now that I’ve had spent a bit of time with, with clients and seeing how much we can impact their business, because honestly, when I started, I’m like, I’m used to being on site with clients, so doing things remotely, I’m like, I’m not sure how this is going to work. But now I’ve seen the the traction and the progress we can make. So I’m excited to welcome new clients to the group and really help them grow their business. I think we can really go far now.
We’ve got all our ducks in a row, so now we just have to help a lot more people in in this space.
Kim Carson: 19:17
Yeah, I think too, looking at our schedule for 2026, just to your point of, oh, now I’m going remote. Like, how is that going to work? We are doing a number of in-person events, or at least we’re scheduled to, and I am looking really forward to what comes out of those. When people see the operating system, when people see how you you two can help them, hold them accountable, show them the things that maybe they’re missing. I’m really looking forward to that and all those those chances to get in-person with people and then, you know, shift it to remote as well so you can continue to support them from your your various locations.
But yes, I’m really excited for that. So with that, I won’t keep you too, too much longer. I have one last question for each of you, and before I ask it, I’ll point people to our sponsor again. So our sponsor is marketing for their website is marketing then the number four. Com and Nancy I’ll start with you.
So my final question What is one thing that a practice owner could do to inspire their staff to achieve a goal in 2026?
Nancy Dewald: 20:31
Okay. Good question. I think I think one the one thing that they can do is to make sure that their people are in the right seat. Because when people are in the right seat and they’re doing what they love, it doesn’t take a lot of inspiring for them to reach their goals. I know that from some of the courses that I’m trained in, that burnout is actually about doing the wrong kind of work than having too much work.
So when you have people in the right seat, and this is one of the things we talk about in the, in people, part of the Cleinman operating system, when you’ve got people in the right seat, they’re self motivated and you don’t have to, you know, be pushing them to achieve their goals. So be present, have conversations with them, understand what’s important to them and what they love to do, and then just watch them go, because that that’s really when the magic happens.
Kim Carson: 21:18
Oh my gosh. Amazing. I had, a previous boss would say to me, sometimes, you know, I get a lot of, you know, he was like, award winning, whatever. But he would say to me, I get a lot of credit for just giving people the jobs that they like and getting out of their way.
Amanda Van Voris: 21:38
Exactly.
Kim Carson: 21:39
Just having no barriers to them being their greatest. And I think that is truly the best way you’re right to inspire people is when they don’t need inspiration at all. Well, thank you very much. And, Amanda, your final question of the day, what piece of advice, based on all of your wisdom and your conversations with clients, what one piece of advice could you give for someone to see business growth in 2026?
Amanda Van Voris: 22:09
Schedule your vacation time for 2026 now.
Nancy Dewald: 22:13
Oh, that’s good advice.
Amanda Van Voris: 22:15
Okay. Seems a little.
Amanda Van Voris: 22:17
Seems a little odd, right? You know, when business owners are in intense business growth activities, it’s important to stop, get off the wheel for a little bit, reframe. Take a break. That’s one of the things that I find that we all, as business professionals, sometimes forget to do. Plan for that time.
Plan for that time to check out, think differently about the business, get out of the fray, get out of the noise, and give yourself the space to think creatively. That’s one of the things that I find is one of probably one of the most effective strategies that leaders should employ and sometimes forget to do.
Kim Carson: 23:05
Amazing. Yeah, we got to slow down. To speed up.
Amanda Van Voris: 23:08
Yep. Literally.
Kim Carson: 23:10
Well, thank you ladies so much for joining me today. That is our show. If you would like to hear more of the podcast, you certainly can at Cleinman.Com and wherever you like to listen. And I think on behalf of all of us, all three of us, it’s safe to say that we wish you all the best as you go forward into 2026 and beyond that. And if you ever need any help getting there, we can certainly help.
These two ladies can certainly help. I won’t say we for that one, but these two ladies can certainly help. Just Cleinman and reach out. And I’m certain that they’re happy to get in contact with you.
Amanda Van Voris: 23:48
Thank you. Kim.
Outro: 23:54
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