Fueling Success Through Peer-to-Peer Conversations

David Spisak is the Director of Peer-to-Peer Programming at Cleinman Performance Partners, a trusted business partner for independent optometry practices for over 35 years. With leadership experience across optometric, orthopedic, urology, and dental group practice operations, David brings an innovative, results-focused approach to healthcare teams. At Cleinman, he helps connect practice owners with shared insight, practical strategies, and trusted support to strengthen teams, foster accountability, and drive sustainable growth.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

[02:08] David Spisak explains why ownership commitment drives practice growth and resilience
[03:47] Why practice ownership can feel lonely, and the support systems owners need
[07:55] The expert consultants fueling Cleinman’s industry-leading peer-to-peer programs
[08:59] How peer-to-peer conversations help teams learn, improve, and grow together
[16:16] David gives a sneak peek at upcoming innovations and new practice needs at Cleinman

In this episode…

Building a successful practice takes more than good instincts and clear goals. When decisions get complex and ownership feels isolating, what helps leaders keep moving forward with confidence?

For David Spisak, the key lies in commitment, the right team, and a circle of support that understands the realities of practice ownership. He explains that peer-to-peer conversations work best when members bring an abundance mindset, a willingness to learn, and the generosity to share what has worked and what has not. That combination creates more than a meeting group; it builds a trusted team where practice owners can grow through honest conversation, shared experience, and practical accountability.

In this episode of the Cleinman Connect Podcast, Kim Carson is joined by David Spisak, Director of Peer-to-Peer Programming at Cleinman Performance Partners, to discuss how peer-to-peer groups help practice owners grow. David shares insights on what makes practices stand out, how Cleinman matches members for better outcomes, and why vulnerability matters. He also talks about innovation and what practice owners can look forward to next.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Quotable Moments:

“Every decision ultimately comes back and affects you and your ownership situation.”
“So it’s really essential that we have the right circle of support around us.”
“But you have to be open to learn, and equally you have to be generous to share.”
“There is a trust and a confidence, and I’m going to stick my neck out and say there’s an affection for one another.”
“We are very interested in innovation. We are very willing to experiment within certain boundaries.”

Action Steps:

Build a strong circle of support: Surrounding yourself with trusted peers, advisors, and team members helps reduce the isolation that often comes with practice ownership.
Commit to doing the hard work: Long-term success requires owners to stay focused, follow through on goals, and remain willing to tackle difficult decisions.
Prioritize team alignment and culture: A practice grows more effectively when the people around the owner share the same vision and support one another.
Approach peer-to-peer conversations with openness: Being willing to learn, share, and be vulnerable helps turn a peer group into a trusted source of insight and accountability.
Stay open to innovation and experimentation: Exploring new ideas, services, and tools allows practices to adapt to changing needs and continue improving over time.

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Marketing4ECPs!

Working with them is like hiring a full-time marketing professional who knows the industry and understands your goals. Except, instead of one experienced marketer, you get a whole team in your corner.

Whether you’re an optometrist, ophthalmologist, or optician, they can help you grow your business with a plan that’s completely customized for you. Learn more here.

Powered by Rise25 Podcast Production Company

Episode Transcript

Intro: 00:07

Welcome to the Cleinman Connect Podcast, where we discuss marketing, ownership, growth strategies and everything else surrounding the business of optometry. Cleinman is Optometry’s trusted business partner for over 35 years. Hello, I’m Kim Carson, hosting David Spisak, Director of our Peer-to-Peer Programming, on this episode of the podcast. Get all of the past episodes, including one recently with Jada Mazury of SmileShop Dental Marketing and Marketing4ECPs at Cleinman.com.

This episode is brought to you by Marketing4ECPs. Working with them is like hiring a full time marketing professional who knows the industry and understands your goals. Except instead of one experienced marketer, you get a whole team in your corner. Whether you’re an optometrist or ophthalmologist or optician, they can help you grow your business with a plan that’s completely customized for you. Learn more at marketing4ecps.com.

I’m joined by David Spisak, who brings a powerful blend of knowledge and leadership experience to his role as Director of Peer-to-Peer Programming at Cleinman. He has successfully held leadership roles in optometric, orthopedic, urology and dental group practice operations. With innovative thinking and a proven management style, he delivers positive results across markets, diverse ownership and care teams. Thank you so much, David, for joining me today.

David Spisak: 01:32

Oh, it’s my pleasure, Kim. As I indicated, I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for some time. So thanks very much. It’s great to be here with you and your audience.

Kim Carson: 01:41

Of course. Yes. Honestly, as I was reading the bio, I was like, I feel like I can hear the audience clop clop clop clop.

David Spisak: 01:49

Well, we’ll see. We’ll see how that goes.

Kim Carson: 01:53

You do have such a diverse background. David, can you tell us a bit about some of the experience that you have?

David Spisak: 01:59

Sure. And I’ll keep it brief because it’s been a very thick book that I’ve been able to enjoy over the years.

Kim Carson: 02:07

That’s not a bad thing.

David Spisak: 02:08

Oh, no. Gosh, no. My background has really been just great fun. It’s a super experience because each step of the way, I have gone through a whole new set of ownership and subspecialties. But the common thread has been it’s all been health care focused and it’s really tied things together for me.

Through that experience where it really boils down to just a couple of elements that I think are the fundamentals of success, not only in health care, but, you know, across business in general. And it boils down to the commitment of the ownership and their willingness to do the hard work that is often, you know, laid at, you know, on that desktop in front of the owner. It’s a critical component because none of this is easy and to stick with it, it requires that long term commitment to see it through to reach your goal. The second element is the team that is around that owner. And you know, from our experience in working together within our, you know, growing organization, the team is just essential.

And when I first got started, frankly, I used to think of it, well, well, what’s number one? Well, it’s always the client. It’s always the patient. Well, I’ve really through my experience, I’ve adjusted that lens a little bit. And now I look at it very much as it’s really the team.

You know so first the commitment and then that team around us that happens to share that same vision that the owner has. And then the last component is, and every optometrist practice owner that we’re talking to today knows this. It is lonely to be the owner. Everything is on your shoulders. Every decision ultimately comes back and affects you and your ownership situation.

So it’s really essential that we have the right circle of support around us, whether it’s family, whether it’s that critical team member that you have that you just trust and have confidence in, or whether it’s outside advisors or consultants, you know, everyone. We all have had experience with consultants and advisors. I think it’s really essential that we have that right match of consultant with who we are and our style, and then where our goals are laid out in front of us.

Kim Carson: 04:45

For sure. And I think too, you know what you said, like the team is so important. And I had a friend look at my resume recently and they were like, wow, you just have chased fun your whole career. Like there’s not a lot of, you know, executive level, high paying this and that. Like you’ve chased fun.

And that is because I crave a team. I work so much better on a team. I work so much better with people. And you’re right, that is so important. Like you can teach, you know, you can teach people a lot of things.

You can’t teach people that. You want to be in the same room as them that you want to share, share eight hours of your day with them. You can’t teach that. That has to be in their core values that match yours before you even hit the ground doing their training.

David Spisak: 05:35

Well, you’re so right with that. Yet you couldn’t be. Well, we’ll talk more about that matching up of styles and interests a little bit later here in our conversation. But yeah, you’re I totally agree with you on that.

Kim Carson: 05:49

Amazing. So I guess then based on your experience in independent optometry and other health care models, what do you think distinguishes the practices from those that struggle? And how has that kind of shaped the Cleinman approach outside of the team?

David Spisak: 06:06

Maybe what I really think it boils down to. And if you look at the Cleinman organization, you know, we have been around for over 35 years. And every step of the way, you know, healthcare has been evolving, seriously evolving since the 70s, going way back. But through the 80s and 90s and early 2000, it has just accelerated where it’s super difficult to keep up with it. You know, the payer situations are different.

You know, whether you’re in Canada or the US, things change and we need to be adaptable. And throughout all of this change, we have to maintain the commitment to see it through. You know, we haven’t shrugged our shoulders and walked away from it and gone, you know, gotten into something else. And it’s the idea of, I guess it’s coming. Going back to those original points, I mentioned the commitment.

Cleinman has been in business for over 35 years. We continue to and we have continued to invest in it and here in the changes that we’ve been through with the merger or acquisition of Pod Marketing of the Cleinman organization, the pod marketing team has continued to invest and strengthened our team even beyond where we were. And I think we came with some real good strengths. And, you know, through our commitment, it’s not only longevity, but it’s the commitment to quality and a very high level of service and support that we give the next component. I’m going back to the team.

If you look at the makeup, you know you’re awesome and I have good days, you know, so we’re not bad.

Kim Carson: 07:52

You’re awesome too, David.

David Spisak: 07:53

Okay.

Kim Carson: 07:54

Don’t sell yourself short.

David Spisak: 07:55

But you know, beyond us. And seriously, the consultants we have are endless true industry experts. Period. We have strengthened the team with HR. We have strengthened the team in practice.

Transitions. The peer to peer team now is doing things a little bit differently. We’ve elevated our game. You know, I got started with Cleinman 12 years ago as a facilitator myself. And over these 12 years, you know, I’ve had 12 years of experience, but it wasn’t 12 years of the same experience.

Every year I have learned every year, our facilitation team has learned and the team that we’re putting together now that we have in place now is really very professional, very knowledgeable, and we are all in sync as far as a unified uniform program that we’re delivering to all of our members, and we’re doing some things that are very special in that regard. And I think that, you know, we’re going to be doing some things. One I just have to cite, we are a peer to peer organization. That’s the way I look at us. And what we did this year is we created a peer to peer group for our facilitators, where we get together as a team and we talk about what worked, what didn’t work, what can we do better, what do we need to do differently?

And it’s wide open, very frank, and it has brought us together. And we’ve always been a good team, but we are now even deeper, embedded with one another and there to support one another, just like what happens in our peer to peer group with our doctors and our managers. And yeah, I think, I think that’s a pretty good summary of like, how we’re different from others out there.

Kim Carson: 09:49

Yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, Cleinman is fundamentally different. Do you think that these kind of deeper connections, like, you know, I’m I guess I’m trying to ask, like, if I was new to a peer to peer group, would I not get as much out of it as someone who’s been here for two, three, four years coming to our peer to peer meetings? Like, how would I get those same better outcomes that they’re getting?

David Spisak: 10:16

Okay. Well, as we get started with a new member, we have an onboarding process where we really get to know each doctor and their practice and have a real good feel of not only the numbers, you know, we’re all into benchmarking and data management by data, etc., which that’s the way the world is these days. But we also understand the importance of the team and the practice culture. So we really evaluate all of that information before we get started and understand, you know, where those challenges are. And it’s, it’s just like what an odd does in the exam room.

They gather data through conversation with the patient. Then they learn more by taking measurements, and then they consider that and then they form a treatment plan. That is exactly the model that we follow. And for that new doc coming in. You know, there’s, there’s a little bit of that experience of, wow, I’m going to start drinking from the fire hose.

But we’ve been through this enough over the last 35 years that we know how to manage the tempo of that orientation and onboarding so that, you know, you’re able to drink from that hose. And it’s, and it’s not overwhelming, but it does take some time. But the new member coming in can have impact that is visible depending on, you know, their willingness to jump in and commit. I mean, it’s visible within six months.

Kim Carson: 11:51

Yeah. I guess that leads perfectly into my next question, which is what would the ideal Cleinman member look like? Like there has to be someone. And Nancy Dewald has said it on this podcast before. There’s a level of vulnerability in our peer to peer groups.

What beyond that? You know what, in terms of mindset, the stage that their practice is in, what they’re willing to bring to the table. You know, what does the ideal Cleinman look like?

David Spisak: 12:18

The ideal member comes in all ages. They can be a new practice, I’ll say relatively new because they have to have, you know, that foundation in place, but they have to bring with them an abundance mindset. And not everybody has that. And it’s not something some believe that that’s something that, you know, we’re born with or not. But I’m a, I’m a believer in we are all trainable.

We are all if we’re willing to learn, we can, we can accept and embrace that abundance mindset. That’s the first thing, you know, be open to those possibilities. Why not me? You know, if I want to. Okay, well, you get the point.

The second is the commitment, the commitment to grow. It’s not well, yeah, it’s going to be a fine year. We’ll hit our goals. but are you really committed to do it? Are you willing to do the hard work to ensure that you reach those goals?

Are you open to learn? You know, we have, you know, in our peer to peer groups, the whole concept is we match peers who are of similar experience in similar practice modalities and frankly, similar mindset because we want to have a group that’s compatible who has shared that same experience and can support one another, as well as learning from that. But you have to be open to learn and equally, you have to be generous to share. We need each other. And what happens through the combination of all of those components is the group itself becomes a team.

I’ve seen it before and it’s magical. I have a group that I have worked with previously, the last probably seven years or so. The bulk of us have been together. There is a trust and a confidence, and I’m going to stick my neck out and say there’s an affection for one another. We really like what we each bring to the table.

And everybody there is committed to support one another, and it’s a very special environment.

Kim Carson: 14:36

No, we’re not naming names, though.

David Spisak: 14:39

No.

Kim Carson: 14:39

They’re all special environments, but.

David Spisak: 14:41

But they know who they are. What I’m thinking of, you guys know. Okay. And I won’t say their names, even though I could. Okay.

Kim Carson: 14:52

Well, I think we’re nearing the end of our episode here, David. So I want to know if you could let everyone listening know, anyone who might be curious about if the Cleinman Performance Network is a good fit for them, or if their interest is outside of the peer to peer groups and it’s in consulting or leadership development. What is the single best first step they could take today?

David Spisak: 15:15

Excellent. We try to provide a frictionless experience. So this is very easy. Call me, email me or call James Johnson who is our manager of business development. Both of us in this initial call, it would be a discovery call.

We would get to know each other and just get a feel for what your interests are and or your needs as you as you see them. And then certainly we’re there to talk a little bit about what we might be able to do to help.

Kim Carson: 15:46

Amazing. cleinman.com as well. It has a lot of answers, a contact us form for that. And then I do have one final question for you. And before I ask it, I’ll point people to our sponsor’s website again.

It was marketing for.com. And my final question for you, David, is for our practice owners that we haven’t named the names of that are already in the Cleinman peer to peer program. What new things should they be getting excited for?

David Spisak: 16:16

Okay, well, they should get excited about the same things that we’re all excited about, and I think they will. When we just had our spring conference in Austin, Texas a few weeks ago, and there was a moment that I can envision it now in my mind, Kevin Wilhelm, our CEO, was up on stage giving awards. And before he did the awards, he was talking a little bit about, you know, what’s ahead for the company and what he said loud and clear that all 100 plus 150 of us all heard in the area. We are very interested in experimentation. What else do we need to do to meet new needs that are surfacing?

And, you know, if we just look around our environment, new needs are being discovered every day, whether it’s subspecialty services or programs that are being developed or refined, or whether it’s new applications of AI bringing in, you know, exceptional keynote speakers that are going to speak to us. We are very interested in innovation. We are very willing to experiment within certain boundaries. I have to say that. But we have our channels of communication wide open with our members, and we’re very interested in having these kinds of conversations about what’s of interest to you.

What are your needs? Because we’re willing to go there.

Kim Carson: 17:44

Okay. I love it. Well, thank you so much, David, for joining me today. That is our show. If you want to hear more of the podcast, you certainly can. At Cleinman.com and wherever you like to listen. Thanks for joining us today.

David Spisak: 17:56

Thank you Kim.

Outro: 18:01

Thank you for listening. At Cleinman, we take pride in helping our partners unlock their full potential. Subscribe to get the newest episodes or visit us anytime at Cleinman.com.

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