Building Patient Loyalty Beyond the Price Tag

Cole Currie is the Business Development Manager at Cleinman and Marketing4ECPs, a digital marketing agency dedicated to helping independent eye care practices grow. With over seven years of performance marketing experience, Cole has guided hundreds of practice owners through proven frameworks that drive measurable revenue growth and eliminate wasteful spending. He draws on his background as both a content strategist and copywriter, as well as his deep understanding of optometry and patient behavior, to deliver data-driven strategies that help practices compete with larger corporate chains.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

[02:38] Cole Currie’s path from English literature to a career in optometry marketing and business development
[04:57] How Cole builds stronger relationships with practice owners through a more collaborative approach
[07:12] What goes into evaluating a practice’s marketing and overall digital presence
[13:30] Common website and marketing challenges facing independent practices
[15:44] Why Cole emphasizes measuring the right numbers to improve practice performance
[20:29] Creating stronger patient relationships and a more personalized experience
[25:49] Cole’s perspective on what makes an eye care experience feel truly premium

In this episode…

Patients have plenty of choices for eye care, from independent practices to big-box retailers and online eyewear brands. Price may get attention, but lasting loyalty often comes down to the patient experience. So what makes an independent practice worth coming back to?

Drawing from his experience in performance marketing and optometry business development, Cole Currie believes stronger patient relationships begin with listening. Instead of simply selling eyewear or moving patients through an eye exam, practices can learn what matters to each person, offer personalized guidance, and help them find solutions that fit their lifestyle and long-term needs. Cole also points to the value of making patients feel heard, educated, and genuinely cared for throughout every interaction. When practices focus on trust, service, and meaningful connection, they can build patient loyalty without relying on lower prices to compete.

In this episode of the Cleinman Connect Podcast, Kim Carson talks with Cole Currie, Business Development Manager at Marketing4ECPs, about building patient loyalty beyond price. Cole shares how listening builds trust, why personalized guidance improves the patient experience, and what makes eye care feel premium. He also touches on practice metrics and marketing strategies that support long-term growth.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Quotable Moments:

“The biggest misconception, and it’s a fair thing to think, is that a relationship is transactional.”
“It comes down to the fact that I’ve built thousands of optometry websites, and I’ve audited thousands more.”
“What we’re looking to help these practice owners achieve is more money with less hours.”
“This is going to be part of their identity, and part of their style, and how they think about themselves.”
“I don’t think it really matters what price the eye exam is.”

Action Steps:

Listen before recommending solutions: Understanding a practice’s goals, frustrations, and context helps ensure recommendations address the problems that actually matter.
Audit the full patient-facing digital experience: Reviewing websites, SEO, Google profiles, advertising, and social media can reveal barriers that prevent prospective patients from taking action.
Measure the metrics that truly drive performance: Tracking indicators like collections per hour and other KPIs gives practices clearer benchmarks for improving results without simply working more hours.
Treat every patient interaction as relationship-building: Listening to patients and guiding them toward solutions that fit their needs creates greater trust and long-term value than a transactional sales approach.
Create a concierge-style patient experience: Making patients feel heard, cared for, and personally recognized can strengthen loyalty regardless of the price of the service.

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Marketing4ECPs.

Working with them is like hiring a full-time marketing professional who knows the industry and understands your goals. Except, instead of one experienced marketer, you get a whole team in your corner.

Whether you’re an optometrist, ophthalmologist, or optician, they can help you grow your business with a plan that’s completely customized for you. Learn more here.

Powered by Rise25 Podcast Production Company

Episode Transcript

Intro: 00:07

Welcome to the Cleinman Connect Podcast, where we discuss marketing, ownership, growth strategies, and everything else surrounding the business of optometry. Cleinman is Optometry’s trusted business partner for over 35 years.

Hello, I’m Kim Carson hosting Cole Currie, the business development manager at Marketing4ECPs, and Cleinman on this episode of the Cleinman Connect Podcast. Don’t do anything. Well, I think I can tell what episode this is going to be. Past guests of the show include Sarah Vinson of Lunette USA and Michele Schenley of E-Dr. You can listen to those episodes and so many more now at Cleinman.com or wherever you like to get podcasts.

This episode is brought to you by Marketing4ECPs. I feel so like, I’m not the right person to be saying this little sponsor read off the top, considering you’re my guest today, but working with Marketing4ECPs is like hiring a full time marketing professional who knows the industry and understands your goals. Except instead of one experienced marketer, you get a whole team in your corner. Whether you’re an optometrist or ophthalmologist or optician, they can help you grow your business with a plan that is completely customized for you. Learn more at marketing then the number four cps.com.

I’m joined by Cole Currie, a business development manager with over seven years in performance marketing. He builds data driven patient acquisition systems that convert advertising spend into measurable revenue growth. He combines strategic content planning, performance analytics, and compelling storytelling across digital channels to help practices compete against corporate chains. Cole has guided hundreds of practice owners through proven marketing frameworks that eliminate wasteful spending and focus exclusively on high ROI tactics. He brings a deep understanding of both the business side of optometry and patient behavior. Thank you for joining me today.

Cole Currie: 02:03

Thanks for having me.

Kim Carson: 02:04

Of course. Thank you for having the easiest to read bio I’ve ever come across.

Cole Currie: 02:11

So welcome.

Kim Carson: 02:12

That’s not going to make sense to anyone because I’m gonna cut out all of my flubs. But thank you so much for having the time for me today. Cole. A bio is always fantastic for me to read, but I would love to know. How did you wind up here in business development?

You have your English literature degree. How does that fit into business development management or does it.

Cole Currie: 02:38

Gosh, you have the same questions that my mother asks me. Oh, but no, I, so I, you know, I did English in school. I really liked books and, and then I ended up going and getting my certificate at Humber for content strategy. So sort of marketing adjacent and then, you know, I’ve just been looking for jobs. And how do you leverage an English degree within marketing?

You do copywriting. So I started out actually at Marketing4ECPs as a content writer and content strategist. So I would write all of our clients blogs, all of their websites, social media posts. And so it really gave me quite a in depth understanding of not only the scientific side of the content and how to spell meibomian gland, but how to translate that into something that’s going to be digestible for the patient or the consumer. Okay.

Yeah, they, they decided, hey, Cole, you talked too much. And, you know, maybe, maybe you want to do something a little bit more, more client facing. I love people and I really love the business side of optometry, especially optometry. So interesting to me in that it’s medical and retail at the same time. So it was a natural career move for me, and I’ve been doing that for three and a half years now.

So and I’ve really, really enjoyed it.

Kim Carson: 04:12

Yeah, I honestly, I kind of want you to spell meibomian glands right now.

Cole Currie: 04:16

MEIBOM. MEIBOMIAN meibomian. Yeah. Meibomian.

Kim Carson: 04:27

Sure. Okay. Blepharitis. I’m kidding.

Cole Currie: 04:30

If I, if I screw that up, cut it out of the podcast.

Kim Carson: 04:33

I will yeah, I will, I’ll fact check you after.

Cole Currie: 04:36

Okay, good.

Kim Carson: 04:37

So you know, you have this title now of business development manager. I think anyone reading that might think, oh, that’s a sales guy. What is the biggest misconception there, you would say between being a business development manager and being just another sales guy?

Cole Currie: 04:57

I think that the biggest misconception, and it’s a fair thing to think is that a relationship, a sales relationship is transactional. So it’s dollars for services. I would distinguish the business development role with Marketing4ECPs and for Cleinman, in that it’s a far more in-depth, more transformative relationship in that I spend a lot of time with our, you know, potential partners who are ready to invest in their business, whether it be on the consulting side or the marketing side. And maybe they just haven’t had anybody explain the depth that you can get into marketing or really lay out in plain language what their collections per hour, how increasing that can really make an impact on their business without having them have to work more hours. So the approach that I usually take with any call that I have with a new practice owner is to really do a diagnostic and understand what’s happening within their practice.

Where are their sort of frustrations or pain points, and really listen to them and then come with a solution focused approach. And, you know, say, hey, this is based off of my experience and these are some tactics or these are some solutions that we have in our roster that we can assist you with. And this is what would make sense to me, and I’m curious for your thoughts. It’s a very collaborative approach. I almost like to think of those initial meetings as kind of working meetings with any optometrist.

So yeah.

Kim Carson: 06:49

And so you said you spend a lot of time with potential partners. You do these audits and you come back with, you know, you kind of hear their goals. You come back with tactics in that initial first meeting. How are you auditing them? Like, what are you looking up about them?

Is it the same every time? Or are you looking up different things, like depending on where they are, who they are?

Cole Currie: 07:12

Yeah, I think there’s on the so on the marketing side, there’s certainly a formula to go through in terms of what I’m looking for. Usually I will audit a practice’s full website and digital presence. So I’ll go through their website, their Google business profile. I’ll audit their website for search engine optimization factors, user experience. Again, I’m a copywriter by trade.

I did website content strategy. So I’m a bit of a website nerd, as my family likes to say about optometry websites. I know a lot about them, so I feel I can bring a lot of value there during the calls. And then I’ll take a look at are you running any ads? Are you.

Are there any ads that I can see right now that I can kind of take my experience and provide a little bit of feedback about? Are you posting frequently on social media? And then I’m taking all of that information and really putting that into the context of who the practice is. So a practice in a more rural area, they might have different goals or tactics or an audience that they’re looking at, which would be different from a, you know, multi-location more urban practice and like a large city. So I’ll do all of that prep work before a call.

But really, it’s my job to listen and learn more than to direct during any of my calls with, with any of our, our potential clients. So I’ll sit down and really, I’m just asking questions and facilitating a conversation. And more toward the end of that call is when, you know, we’re really, really getting into the nitty gritty of, hey, this is what I found. This is my audit because I can’t provide any of those thoughts or recommendations without context. So I need to be able to learn as much as I can before getting into, hey, you know, you don’t have proper meta title on your website or you haven’t posted on social media since December of 2024, what’s up with that kind of thing?

And on the on the consulting side or on the client side of things, it’s similar where a lot of the times I don’t have the context that I need publicly from a practice, you can glean a lot from a practice based off of the services that they provide, the different eyewear brands that they carry, even the way that they market themselves. You can tell who’s sort of a high medical practice versus a high optical practice or practices that are kind of a, you know, a powerhouse when it comes to eye exams. But at the end of the day, what I’m doing on my calls with potential clients is saying, tell me as much as you wish to tell me about your practice. And that allows me to kind of glean a lot of insight from them as long as people are open and honest with me.

Kim Carson: 10:16

Yeah, I think that that’s something Nancy and Amanda have preached on, especially on this podcast, is there’s a level of openness that comes with consulting. I’m not certain about the level of openness that has to come with marketing for a potential partner. But I know for Cleinman partners, it’s you kind of have to like peel back the layers and like, be okay with the results that could come from that.

Cole Currie: 10:41

Yeah. But I think it’s, it’s fair enough for, for anybody to, there’s a vulnerability involved with sharing, you know, things about your practice and the problems that you’re going through. And so trust needs to be earned. And so that kind of goes back to what I was talking about earlier, where it’s challenging to go into it. And a lot of people would have had previously very transactional relationships with somebody who’s in a role similar to mine.

So it’s about kind of me being open and honest and, you know, setting the stage for that to kind of invite a little bit more of that vulnerability into the space so that we can get to what’s actually going to solve a problem for, for a practice owner. Because man, being a practice owner is really hard and I’ve never done it. And I just hear from so many people about, you know, well, you know, I got to deal with, you know, my rent payments. I gotta, you know, invest in a new technology. I’ve got staff that I need to take care of.

I have inventory that I need to manage. And oh, by the way, I have to post on social media. It’s just one thing after another that so many of these independent practice owners have to manage. And so to be in a position where I have something that’s going to take something off of their plate, really, and especially because I, I work in the dual sense with Marketing4ECPs and Cleinman, I can kind of go in there and diagnose and say, hey, I actually have something that I think is going to be helpful to you. Is that a conversation that you would like to continue?

And, you know, nine and a half times out of ten, it’s, oh my gosh, yeah, of course I would. I would love to at least explore more about how this could potentially help me. So it’s always, it’s always fun. I always look forward to any conversation that I have.

Kim Carson: 12:36

Yeah, like you said, I have really enjoyed working with optometrists. I certainly don’t envy them. Like a lot of the time I’m like, oh, that sounds extremely difficult what you do. So I mean, kudos to any optometrist owners listening right now. Yeah, I kind of want to know, going back to your audits that you have done, and I’m certain you’ve done countless amounts of them, particularly for potential current past whatever marketing for clients.

I’m kind of curious to know if you found something in your audits that is repetitive. Like you could be like, yeah, 90% of the audits I’m going to complete will have this thing score low. And what is that thing?

Cole Currie: 13:30

It’s typically search engine optimization. People will typically score low on when they’re coming to talk to me and user experience on the website. So when I’m talking about user experience from marketing audit perspective, I’m talking about how the website is laid out and whether or not it is easy for a user or in this case, a potential patient or a returning patient to navigate the website to find the information that is going to be most helpful to them in their situation and to schedule an appointment. Those are typically signals where and you can do certain you can use certain tools to find those indicators. You know, you can do heat map tracking.

You can, you know, use, you know, the like Semrush and these kind of, you know, search engine optimization audit tools. But really, it comes down to the fact that I’ve built thousands of optometry websites and I’ve audited thousands more. And I’m used to looking at these types of things, and I’m used to optimizing for these types of things. And so when a website doesn’t have, you know, let’s say a sticky navigation bar or call to action on a hero image, or if they don’t have a drop down menu for their services, then those are usually indicators that if I ask a practice, hey, do you know how much traffic you’re getting and what your conversion rate is? And have you seen a lot of patient volume come in?

Typically the response I’ll get is, well, either no, I don’t know my conversion rate because I don’t look at my marketing stats because they’re mystifying or it’s actually kind of low. So those would be the typical things that I see nine times out of ten. And you know.

Kim Carson: 15:23

Okay. And for Cleinman audits, same question. Is there something that you hear in your initial calls with owners? Is there something you see from their website or a number that they are like, oh, I have never even thought of using that as a, as a bar or a benchmark to if I’m doing well or not.

Cole Currie: 15:44

In terms of Cleinman typically practices that I’ve spoken with will measure their success just in terms of month to month. How are we doing revenue wise? And, you know, are we up? Are we down? And then year over year, are we up or are we down?

You know, have we gone from 1,000,001 practice to 1,000,001 five practice. Cool. Great. We’re growing. I think that a lot of times people don’t realize how into the nitty gritty you can get with the numbers.

So a lot of practice owners will be familiar with their capture rate or, or their, their lenses per exam, which is kind of how we word it or, you know, like their annual collections. But we’ll take a look at like collections per odd hours, typically the most indicative of practice success. Because again, what we’re looking to help these practice owners achieve is more money with less hours. So it’s kind of like that golden goose of how do you how do you how do you make more and, and work the same more or less. And so we do so much benchmarking with our network and we have so much great historical data that I can look at a practice and say, okay, how many hours do you practice in a year?

What’s your annual revenue now? Therefore, just a little bit of napkin math, courtesy of Amanda Van Voris, who taught me the this is how much I can glean that you get per odd hour. Perfect. Now I can actually start to benchmark you against our clients and our network. And the great thing with the Cleinman, you know, the Cleinman Performance Network is, is high performing practice owners.

These are dedicated, entrepreneurial minded, you know, almost like risk taking kind of odds, like they want to try different things and they are usually reaping the benefits of like, you know, like reaping the rewards of that investment into their practice. And so I can say to a practice, hey, if you’re making $500 per hour, that’s totally fine. If you want to stay there on average, alignment practice makes 789. So if you were to increase your, you know, your, your revenue per or your collections per hour by almost $300, what impact would that make on your practice? And so we can start to imagine, hey, what would that look like?

And then what are the steps to get there? And you know, the other thing that I usually hear is staff management. It’s very challenging if you haven’t been taught or if you haven’t learned before how to actually manage your staff and put them in a position to succeed. Conflict resolution. You know, actually organizing your staff in such a way that it makes sense for your practice.

So that’s why I’m really glad that we have the HR solutions, because we can do things on a project basis and say, hey, if you have a staff that might be a little bit disengaged, then we can do some core values exercises. We can do an engagement survey so that you have actual hard like qualitative data to go back to and say, oh, this is something that I can now measure to, to improve within my practice. And I think that’s the whole ethos is, you know, what you measure or what you don’t measure doesn’t move. And so therefore you measure does move. And so the more things that we can measure or put key performance indicators on, the better we’re going to be able to move the needle for our practice.

Kim Carson: 19:43

I’m also interested to know kind of going back to the role of business development manager and business development as a whole. Is there something that, you know, you could kind of apply what you do for Cleinman and Marketing4ECPs to improve maybe some of that retail side of a practice? Like, is there something that you think opticians, front desk staff managers could be doing to build that relationship a bit more with people to maybe increase those lenses per exam, those that revenue per odd hour? Like what could happen if retail was seen more so as business development in a practice?

Cole Currie: 20:29

Yeah, that’s a really interesting question. I like that I’ve had multiple conversations with about, you know, lots of different ODS because obviously I’m, you know, in business, I am a sales professional. That’s my job is doing sales and such is the same with a practice, with a retail side. And, you know, like you’re dispensing glasses. And I find that a lot of practices, it’s more you don’t think about the relationship that you’re going to build with a patient as they’re making a decision to purchase frames.

So my optometrist who’s in here in Calgary, in Killarney, I have like a bunch of Etnia Barcelona frames from them. I really love them. And I actually, I get all of my other frames from a woman named Wendy Buchanan. She’s, she’s great. She’s an optician based in Mississauga who, funny enough, was friends with my mom before I even went into this industry.

But I think it’s really thinking about your relationship with the patient and saying, I’m going to. Ideally, this person is going to wear their glasses every single day. This is going to be part of their identity and part of their style and how they think about themselves. And whenever they look in the mirror, you know, unless they’re bleary eyed, like, right in the morning, they’re going to be looking at these glasses. So I want them to be happy with them.

So it’s number one, investing in, you know, your feeling about your relationship with and taking pride in what you’re putting in front of the, in front of the patient. And I think as well, it’s, it’s listening. It’s always, it’s always saying, hey, I can prescribe and I can say, hey, you have a round face. And so therefore, you should probably have more rectangular glasses because that’s going to help with, you know, like your face shape and angles and things like that. But as opposed to just dispensing knowledge, like I could sit on a, on a call, like on a marketing call with an optometrist and I could yap at them for an hour about marketing, but they wouldn’t get anything out of it because they would just have to hear me drone about marketing.

I think that’s something that when we’re really passionate or good about or good at something. So with me, with marketing or with, you know, an optician with, with glasses or even with like an eye doctor, if they’re in the exam chair and they are super gung ho about, you know, axial length and they’re just going to like talk about it is I think it’s really about what perspective is that patient or, you know, customer coming from and then helping them, guiding them toward a solution. I think that’s where you find a lot more success with, especially if you’re in a practice that you’re kind of surrounded by big box retail or you’re competing with, you know, like the Warby Parkers of the world and stuff like that, where people can go, they can get glasses and they can get them for, you know, cheaper than they’re going to get them from their local optometrist, but they’re going to have to replace their glasses sooner than they would with their, you know, their eye doctor. So by kind of recognizing that, hey, you’re going to actually have a more transformational Relationship with your patient, then you think you’re going to. Then you’re able to guide them into a solution that’s going to be, in the long term, a better benefit for them.

So that’s what I would say.

Kim Carson: 23:53

Okay. Amazing. Thank you. I would love for you to share if there’s ways for people to get in touch with you. Easy ways for people to get in touch with you.

If you want to drop your email, your cell phone number, I don’t know.

Cole Currie: 24:05

Yeah, absolutely. You can send me a DM on Instagram now. No, there’s multiple ways of getting in contact with me calling Marketing4ECPs. I’m the one who picks up the phone. So, so you’re right there.

If you go on to the Marketing4ECPs website, you go into contact us, you can request a website audit from me or you can book a book, a demo right into the Marketing4ECPs website. Or if you like, you can always email me ccurrie@cleinman.com, ccurrie@cleinman.com. And yeah, I’m, I’m always kind of active on email and even LinkedIn and things like that. If you just search up Cole Currie and just look for the handsome guy and then.

Kim Carson: 24:44

Oh yeah.

Cole Currie: 24:45

That one’s me.

Kim Carson: 24:47

Great. Yeah, perfect. Everyone will know now.

Cole Currie: 24:49

Perfect. Good.

Kim Carson: 24:52

I do have one last question. And before I ask it, I will point people to our sponsors website again, that is marketing4ecps.com. And my final question for you, Cole, is I don’t know if I am allowed to drop this secret about you, but I’m going to anyways. You go for a lot of eye exams. You go for more than benefits would require amount of eye exams more than even your prescription changes amount of eye exams I I’d probably say yeah.

So I would love to know if you saw let’s say there’s this practice and they were advertising a 10,000 eye exam. What would you, as someone who’s gone for many eye exams, expect a 10,000 eye exam to have.

Cole Currie: 25:40

I would expect premium. I would, you know, maybe keys to a Ferrari for a day.

Kim Carson: 25:47

So drive a Ferrari to your appointment.

Cole Currie: 25:49

Exactly. I would know the you know what I’m expecting from an eye exam. I think at any point, you know, I don’t think it really matters what price the eye exam is. But I’m expecting, you know, to be listened to, to be to be taught a little bit of something. And I, I’m, I’m expecting almost like a concierge type of service.

So like I said earlier, so I do go for a lot of eye exams. And so I apologize to if, if my eye doctor is listening right now, I really appreciate you. But, you know, I just go to, you know, just see practices and how they’re operating and things like that. But I really like the way that my eye doctor does all of their operations, because when I walk in, I’m greeted And I am, you know, shown toward hey, doctor’s going to be with you in five minutes. Take a look at some of our frames.

You know, I’ll go ahead, I’ll take a look. And then I’m promptly shown into, you know, like the pre exam room. And I don’t prefer air puff. I don’t think that anybody does. And so I like the, the tonometer that, that just, you know, kind of does the eye poke and that’s totally fine.

But, you know, so modern equipment, things like that. And then really, I, I do like to spend time with, with, with my doctor. So, you know, I don’t want to just be in and out and have that feel like it’s going to be a transaction and just. All right. Cool.

I’ll take a look at your stuff. Here’s your prescription. You’re out the door. I like when I’m asked questions. I like when I’m asked questions about my lifestyle.

So I have really, really severe dry eye. It’s like pretty bad. I live in a really, really dry climate, you know, so I get IPL treatments and so every time I see my eye doctor, they ask, hey, you know, how’s everything feeling? Are you pretty gritty? Anything like that?

And so we actually get to talk about my lifestyle and I get to learn more about how does my overall, you know, lifestyle impact my eye health? Not just, you know, my, my, my breathing or my blood pressure or anything like that because it is such an important part of, of your life. You know, you do use your eyes every day and you got two of them. So I think that most of us, unless you’re the Cyclops in the Odyssey, but, you know, shadow, shadow Polyphemus. That’s the English major coming out.

I do know the name.

Kim Carson: 28:24

Son of Poseidon.

Cole Currie: 28:26

Son of Poseidon. Yeah, true. Also the Guardians. Can we talk about. No.

Kim Carson: 28:30

Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. We gotta wrap this up.

Cole Currie: 28:34

No, but anyways. Yeah. So I really am expecting just kind of that concierge service and just to feel like I’m cared for. At the end of the day. And not as if I’m just some other appointment on, on the schedule.

And I think that a lot of practices do that exceptionally well. And I think that that’s especially something that I can say about a lot of Cleinman practices is that they do a really, really great job of making the patient feel heard and seen. So yeah.

Kim Carson: 29:02

Amazing. Well, thank you, Cole, for a great episode today. And that’s our show. If you want to hear more of the podcast, you certainly can at Cleinman.com and wherever you like to listen. Thank you.

Outro: 29:15

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